Knight Rider Legacy Discussion Thread

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Post by knightimmortal » Sun Oct 06, 2002 9:52 pm

KRR, I know you support Richie, but try not to insult the other fans around here by saying that he is more dedicated than anybody else. We are all dedicated to the point of being rabid, and elevating one person beyond the others is just going to continue the fight.

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Post by Michael Pajaro » Mon Oct 07, 2002 1:29 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by knightvision:
<STRONG>
Anything more on this topic will now have to come from Mike and not from Joe or I.
</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Six weeks ago, Joe Huth agreed to remove the material they copied from my website.
Last week, he sent me a copy of their revised Team Knight Rider episode guide.
Whether or not they choose to just throw it away is their business.

There have been no battles.
There have been no stalemates.
There have been no hostile actions on my part.

I have heard from iUniverse.com. The faxes they received simply state that Copp & Goodman sent Joe and Richie information. In fact, they specifically say that the producers had no knowledge whether or not the authors used their material, or material from my website.

I have heard from Rick Copp. He assures me that they were never "appalled" at me for anything. They have NOT expressed support for Joe and Richie's campaign. Any claims stating otherwise are completely false.

I have not received any registered letter, email, airplane banner or smoke signal from anyone regarding my website and Universal Studios.

Suffice it to say, from the very beginning this board has not been told the truth about the situation.

In my mind, the issue of the book was resolved six weeks ago when Joe Huth told me he would remove my material from their book.

Mike

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Post by knightvision » Mon Oct 07, 2002 2:33 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael Pajaro:
<STRONG>

Six weeks ago, Joe Huth agreed to remove the material they copied from my website.
Last week, he sent me a copy of their revised Team Knight Rider episode guide.
Whether or not they choose to just throw it away is their business.

</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mike please refer to both authors when you post, Joe has 50% of the decision here, you are only validating our claims when you choose to ignore one author and post to another. Please refrain from doing that again. I wrote the book and so did Joe, whether you like it or not that is FACT and you need to respect that.

Joe sent you the revised guide at my urging. After discussing how many pages the book would swell to, we decided that the Scheffe interview had to go in. WE MADE THE DECISION. There are two people who decided this Mike, stop being disrespectful.

You do not own the copyright to the Team Knight Rider episode guide, Copp and Goodman do. I am sorry but this is FACT and you can't claim to have copyright to something that they wrote. I have the letter, they attested that you don't have the copyright. Do you need a copy of it?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>
There have been no battles.
There have been no stalemates.
There have been no hostile actions on my part.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are right, there have been no battles. That is because we decided to watch how you made a fool of yourself, libeling the book and being a grumpy, hostile individual who never compromises. Mike, everyone on that Knight Registries board was irritated you that you took such a hostile action towards us. LISTEN TO YOUR WORDS. Reread all your posts. You continue to refuse acknowledgement that I am one the authors of the book. You hate me, just admit it so everyone can see how bias towards me you are. Everyone can see your hostility, can't you?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>I have heard from Rick Copp. He assures me that they were never "appalled" at me for anything. They have NOT expressed support for Joe and Richie's campaign. Any claims stating otherwise are completely false.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Have not expressed support? Listen to what Mike just said. They FAXED over letters, gave interviews and gave us the TKR Bible and synopsis from their shows. If that is not support then what world are you living in Mike? THEY FAXED OVER LETTERS. Seems to me if they supported you and your site they would fax over letters as well or call Joe or I to tell us they would not support us. Nice try Mike but we have WRITTEN proof of support and if the average person reads my argument, they will see I just shot your arguement down. Sorry Mike, you are lying.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>
I have not received any registered letter, email, airplane banner or smoke signal from anyone regarding my website and Universal Studios.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No problem, since you are so insistant on violating Universal's copyright, Mattel's copyright, Revolution Studio's copyright amongst others by using their logos (TKR Press KIT using Universal logo) then I am sure that my attorney can arrange a call over to Universal tomorrow. Browse Mike's site and see for yourself. It is also archive in web.archive.org. Remember Mike, you said we do not tolerate using logos without permission.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR> Suffice it to say, from the very beginning this board has not been told the truth about the situation.

In my mind, the issue of the book was resolved six weeks ago when Joe Huth told me he would remove my material from their book.

Mike

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If it was so "resolved" then why rant and rave, go over to the Knight Registries board and sign your name MOSTHATEDPERSON@TEAMKNIGHTRIDER.COM. Mike is nothing but a big child who did not get his way by making himself more important then everyone else. You can only cry wolf so many times.

You have been told the truth. We have the support of Copp and Goodman.

As for addressing me correctly I suggest you act 34 and as a moderator who people respect here and give me my due recognition whether you like it or not. I am a co-author of the said book in question. Joe Huth is another co-author of the book. Joe could promise you a brass ring, without my consent you would never get it. As such please cease referring to Joe as the only author of Knight Rider Legacy. Thank you in advance.

Now enough of this nonsense. Joe and I have busy lives and don't have time to keep defending a book. Get over your jealousy of the book and let us end this.

Richie Levine
CO-AUTHOR OF KNIGHT RIDER LEGACY THE UNOFFICIAL GUIDE TO THE KNIGHT RIDER UNIVERSE

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Post by Michael Pajaro » Mon Oct 07, 2002 3:14 am

Forgive me. Allow me to clarify:

Copp and Goodman originally supported the writing of the Knight Rider Legacy book. They provided interviews and other material to Joe and Richie, the two co-authors of the book. Absolutely. No questions asked.

However, they were never "appalled" or "aggrivated" at me in any way as Richie blatantly claims. Copp & Goodman do NOT support the claim that the authors DID NOT copy material from my website. (There are two negatives in there, read it carefully.) Nor do they specifically support me saying that the authors DID copy material from my website. Basically, they are in no position to say where the material in the book came from, and that's what they told iUniverse.com.

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Post by knightvision » Mon Oct 07, 2002 3:41 am

I am going to ask this very nicely of you that you start to see that you have a problem and it is affecting your moderation and your respect in this community.

Let us review so that we may come to a reasonable conclusion of this topic.

1) Mike Pajaro currently is using Universal Logo's on a press kit and claiming to be an unofficial site

2) Mike Pajaro does not own the rights to ANY episode guide of Team Knight Rider. Only Copp and Goodman do.

3) Copp and Goodman faxed over letters of support. If they did not disagree with Mike, they would not have done that.

4) Mike did not read the entire book. He took the easy way out, downloaded our book off the internet to make his claim. All his claims come off of seeing one chapter of the book.

5) He has no idea that Glen Larson himself thinks he is a jackass and hates Team Knight Rider. The man who created Knight Rider supports us. What proof does Mike have that he is supported? We have letters, what does Mike have? Last time I look he wrote our foreword. Did he ever support you?

6) Any idiot with a vcr and episodes of Team Knight Rider can see the names on the screen at the end of Fallen Nation, when Jenny tries to access Michael Knight's file. This is what Mike claims we infringed on, and the listing of names is one STUPID example of how Mike is just doing this out of hatred of me and his jealousy of the book.

Keep reading the paranoia of a moderator who has no leg to stand on. If Mike would like, we can have others like Paul Sher Jr. come here and demonstrate how Mike has shown no regard for this community.

I can't believe I am wasting this much time responding to such childish arugements by you. Why not just make everyone happy and send a letter to Iuniverse and let us put the original book back up?

Why does the book have to pay for your hatred of me? I would love to hear the answer to that question. I doubt you will answer it.

Grow up Mike.

Richie Levine
CO-AUTHOR OF KNIGHT RIDER LEGACY THE UNOFFICIAL GUIDE TO THE KNIGHT RIDER UNIVERSE

[ October 07, 2002: Message edited by: knightvision ]

[ October 07, 2002: Message edited by: knightvision ]

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Post by Michael Pajaro » Mon Oct 07, 2002 4:47 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by knightvision:
<STRONG>
6) Any idiot with a vcr and episodes of Team Knight Rider can see the names on the screen at the end of Fallen Nation, when Jenny tries to access Michael Knight's file. This is what Mike claims we infringed on, and the listing of names is one STUPID example of how Mike is just doing this out of hatred of me and his jealousy of the book.</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Copying those names themselves is not a copyright infringement. It simply helps establish that the author(s) were in fact aware of my website and were using it as a guide for their book (which by itself is fine.) But then they went overboard when they started to actually copy other material. It is a small part of the large picture.

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Post by knightvision » Mon Oct 07, 2002 6:32 am

Can we drop the ego please?

I know its asking a lot but I think we can saftely assume that by not answering my first five comments Mike has no response for them.

So unless Mike has anything new to add, I think the board has seen who has proof and who does not.

Of course if Mike was willing to somehow answer each question I put to him.....

But na thats like asking Mike to have an organized website. I don't think that would be fair to ask of him.

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Post by krider » Mon Oct 07, 2002 8:01 am

If having an interview with the creator of KITT is SUCH a big deal, don't you think you would wait until he was available to include it? Being priority one on a lot of fans wish lists, it would have been something to wait for.

If you are removing both TKR and KR2010, from the book, isn't all this arguments a mutt point anyway? I think its absurd that you are removing the sections from the book in the first place, but I guess its not my place to decide. However, I do think the book should be re-titled from Knight Rider Legacy to Knight Rider the selective years. If it really was a book about the legacy it would include everything about the series. Are there really that many crap black and white never before scene photos that could warrant giving half the story?

Mike took the easy way out? Not supporting someone who has obvious hostility towards him is taking the easy way out? Why didn't you give him a proof of the Team Knight Rider section to look at? One would think if this was a book created with the community, you would allow the bigger supporters of that community to look at the book before hand in order to give comments. You knew that material from his book was taken from his website and that he would make a stink out of it.

Please also stop with the high and mighty *?$#. Who that have been around long enough remember your site? remember how you posted video clips and drew the attention of Universal to shut down your site. And also how you lied about it and said that Universal was shutting down the entire knight rider community, when in fact you were the only one pissing them off. You lied to us to get you way and it almost cost the whole community. Stop throwing out talks of copyright infringement when have the community you are trying to support also follow under copyright infringement, and your quest to shut mike down will likely shut everyone down. I see however, that in order to take your high and mighty route, that you have removed all the copyright material from your website, are you afraid that dealing with Universal to get teamknightrider.com taken down that yours would have been removed as well?

Stop bringing up people as your supporters. We don't care who from the knight rider universe supports you and who thinks mike is a jackass. it's starting to sound like you are a name dropper with a HUGE ego and using that as your only method to prove your point. Drop with the name dropping and then you can tell someone to drop the ego.

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Post by Smoothy » Mon Oct 07, 2002 8:43 am

I think by now everyone is getting bored of the whole situation. I know I'm getting bored of this thread which seems to have degenerated into a general slagging off of Mike, or Richie, or the writers of the book just because they dared to add more material into the 2nd edition. Why people like to rubbish people even when they have done good is beyond me. The fact is it was pointed out that the book had an infringement, the infringing part is being dropped and additional material (which has been obtained since the book was published) is being added. Simple. Anyone who knows schedules would know that not everything can be added within the time limit set by the publishers. These new stuff is being added because the current situation gave them enough time to obtain an finalise.

Please, no more slagging off people who have clearly put their heart & soul into the book, websites, whatever. The situation has been resolved and we should move on.

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Post by Darknight » Mon Oct 07, 2002 9:12 am

Correction, Richie. Can YOU drop the ego, please. I've seen about all I can take. While you prolong this fight, the community continues to suffer. Quite frankly, with or without the book that no one asked you to write, the community will exist, so get over it, ok? As for this lie about writers not writing for money, I'll say this. Would you write it and give it away for free? Of course not. I'll also say this: while some writers write for the love of writing, others write strictly from self-interest. Now, given your track record, I think the community can decide for itself which kind of person you are. Quit acting like you're doing the community a great service just by being alive, would ya. Fact is, because of your carelessness, all those who bought the first version have now in their possession a nearly worthless book, thanks to your oh-so grand "expanded edition".

Joe, I in no way mean any of the above toward you, just for the record. Richie is the one primarily at fault here in this mess; make no mistake about it.

P.S. I've been busy in the real world, just trying to get by, while this whole book thing grew to what it is now. Folks, after all is said and done, let's not let this one thing mess up the board, and/or leach into our day to day lives. If we do that, we all end up losers in the end.

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Post by krider » Mon Oct 07, 2002 9:58 am

let us get one more thing sorted out here. In order to publish at iUniverse, YOU go to them, they don't go to you. (incase you do not know, usually the publisher gives you money for a book) It's a way for people to publish their own work without having to be picked up by a big distributor, it lets the little guy have a chance. It is a very good market model.

The Author PAYS iUniverse to publish the book. There are NO pressures from publishers to get the book out since you are the one paying them! mates of mine have had books published from iUniverse, its not the way they opperate! it is ridiculous to say that the reason the published a rushed book was because of the publisher.

thats why there are typos, thats why there are passages "influenced" from other websites. Because they did not purchase the level of program that included copyediting. ($600 is a big difference, so I can understand that) And iUniverse doesn't have a fact checking team which makes sure the items in the book are correct, like big publishing companies do.
http://www.iuniverse.com/publish/more_information.asp?pro_name=Writers_Showcase

Smoothy, you are right in one point, lets not slag off on anyone any further. what is done is done, and only the people directly involved will have to deal with themselves ultimately.

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Post by Joe Huth II » Mon Oct 07, 2002 10:37 am

I did revise the TKR episode guide and Richie and I fully planned to include it in the new version of the book. However, with the addition of Scheffe and Holden's material, we simply don't have room for the episode guide. Therefore, we are cutting that section and Knight Rider 2010, but leaving the actual TKR chapters. So, if you want to read the TKR episode guide chapter, you'll have to get your hands on the first version of the book. End of story.

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Post by Stylez » Mon Oct 07, 2002 1:59 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joe Huth II:
<STRONG> So, if you want to read the TKR episode guide chapter, you'll have to get your hands on the first version of the book. End of story.

Joe</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So how exactly are you suppose to get your hands on the first version?? Sounds to me like you're on a high horse today. Nobody asked for your snotty explanation, this doesn't sound like you Joe! What the hell is happening to this community? This is absolutely ridiculous, all thats being done is tarnishing KR for ourselves. Lets see if we can wreck the KR game for ourselves too. Sorry people, had to let that out.

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Post by knightimmortal » Mon Oct 07, 2002 3:07 pm

Calm down, Stylez, the only ones that wreck the community are those who kipe off of it for personal gain. Everybody has their rights to speak out and defend themselves, whether it be Mike, the authors, or the people who have either bought the book and will not be getting the full benefits of the book with the new edition coming out, or those who have been waiting for their edition.

We are stronger than that, and we have other things to occupy our time.

That was the moderator speaking. This is the human:
_________________________________________
Mike does have copyright infringements on his site. They are of a higher level than most other sites, they even go beyond the constraints of the show. That is true.

On the other side of the coin, the authors blaming Mike for them adding extra material is pretty darn arrogant. They are the authors, they are responsible for their book, and what is in it.

The authors are removing the episode guide, because that is the largest area where the infringement claims are stemming from, and the claims are so general, that they most likely do not want to be right here again, in the case that Mike finds something else that is similar to his site.

Once again, on the other side of the coin, the people who bought the book, and spent their money on the original, who had faith in the original, (which was a pretty large part) are going to have to re-buy the book if they want the full story. Not exactly fair to those who had faith in the writers in the first place, and wanted to help the community then. Money doesn't grow on trees, and the original will end up losing some value due to the fact that it doesn't have extras.

So, in general, both sides have faults. Neither side can expect total sympathy here, this still reflects a huge case of "I must have the last word" from both sides, and to be honest, it is getting downright old.

Mike, when you reprimand another site from taking from yours, you give them a chance to give you credit or take it off. They may be making money off of this deal, but you do not own Team Knight Rider. Just the website. I have seen the general list of complaints, including the ones that you, yourself presented, and really, they are general description sentences, there are only so many ways you can describe something, and certain aspects. They didn't necessarily get it from your site, but if they did, you should have known deep down that approaching one author over the other wasn't going to get the situation absolved completely. You were going to have to deal with Richie at one point or another, because he is still the CO-AUTHOR of it. And you had to have known that after all of this time, that Richie wouldn't take it lying down. Eventually, the whole community could end up paying for this little volley. You have your rights, but for a website, is it worth having two whole sectors of the community at each other's throats for it?

And Richie and Joe. Joe, I expected a little bit better from you on this whole thing. Both of you are going to have to get used to a little bit of resentment over your decision, since people coughed up their good money for the first edition, and in fact, a few put their reputations on the line to sell your first edition, to only have it in effect end up worthless by the second edition, especially this soon after the first edition had been released, and massively sold. People ended up paying $22 for the first one, (even at the $16 it was at, you add shipping and handling, and it goes up.) and now are going to have to shell out another $22 for the second one. A $44 book is not the best way to remain on the good side of the community that you claim to cherish. It is your right to do it, but don't think for a moment that people have to be happy about it. These are the things that authors have to face. Mike is probably not going to lay off, no matter how much you throw at him, he never has before, I doubt he is going to start now. But you have now entered the world of criticism. It isn't always going to be good. You just have to face the consequences of it. But if you were in the shoes of the average consumer, and you bought a VCR, and because the manufacturer forgot to put the power button on, you had to buy a new VCR, would you be happy?

Just food for thought.

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Post by KRAvenger » Mon Oct 07, 2002 4:10 pm

Uh, exactly how many people bought the first edition? I only count three or four, (Myself included) Who have admitted to having it.

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Post by knightimmortal » Mon Oct 07, 2002 7:34 pm

Who cares, it is a whole lot more than three or four to have made the Barnes & Noble best seller list for a week.

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Post by KRAvenger » Mon Oct 07, 2002 7:41 pm

It did? Gee, how many copies do You have to sell to get that prestigous honor?

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Post by knightvision » Mon Oct 07, 2002 8:18 pm

I will be fair and say that I do see all sides of this. However, krider just appeared on the scene out of nowhere and has not posted in any other threads. So his opinion between Joe and I does not carry any weight.

Yes we self published. But Krider who cares? Does that make the book any less valuable?

Darknight, I am sorry but I am not the root of this problem. The problem originated with Mike Pajaro and we are attempting to resolve it. I asked above and so did Neil not to attack me. Nobody attacked you Corby, so please keep in mind there are TWO authors not one. I respect you Darknight, but I am asking you to respect Joe and I and support the book, not attack the author.

At this point Mike, congradulations we are jettising the entire TKR section. So the disputes about this topic are finished. Since any hope of running anything by Mike with his attitude is gone, so is any chance we could keep the TKR section.

I don't mean to be rude but Laura's post was fair to both sides, we are both to blame. However for all that people want to bash me, Joe and I worked hard to put a book together. Next time you want to call Joe rude, keep in mind that he said in a few words what I wanted to say all this time.

For the final time our source was not Mike. Mike wants the center of the world to revolve around him. Honestly Joe and I both spoke today on the phone and came to the conclusion that Mike can rest assured knowing that one of the worst shows of all time in syndication--TEAM KNIGHT RIDER, will be his exclusive property.

Sit back go to teamknightrider.com and if you can discover it in the lost mess he calls a site, maybe you can find his TKR section. Because you won't be finding it in our book.

That my friends is the last word Joe or I are saying about the book until a release date. This petty squabbling and positioning will cease from both of us, we have jobs that require our attention. From the way I see it, you have only confirmed how disorganized this community has become. Other then to defend the book, I want no part of it as long as Mike Pajaro continues to be a hostile, contemptious biased individual who should not be a moderator.

Good day and peace to you all.

Richie Levine

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Post by firebird91 » Mon Oct 07, 2002 8:41 pm

first off I would like to say that basically this squabble over the book is crazy. Its a book about a subject we are all supposed to care about.

Second any of us here in the community can or could be subject to copyright infrindgement in my opinion just due to the fact that most of us maybe not all of us have some form of picture, sound effect, use of characters, on their website or in their fan fiction.

Third and finally the name calling and taking pot shots at others in unnecessary and doesnt make anyone look good. It makes it look like the community is falling apart in my opinion.

Lets drop the squabble and get back to the main subject. Knight Rider

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Post by knightimmortal » Mon Oct 07, 2002 8:49 pm

Please be careful about referencing copyright infringement when it comes to the rest of the community, we wouldn't want to give anybody any ideas.

As for this topic, if you want to move on, then feel free to move on, post in other threads, and show how unified we really are to get past this.

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Post by Skav » Mon Oct 07, 2002 8:55 pm

I agree with KI. let it slide, people. what's goin on now, in my view, is personal bickering. and this has to be stopped.

i think its goin off the topic of the book fiasco.

this needs to be stopped!

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Knight Rider Legacy Discussion Thread

Post by Darknight » Mon Oct 07, 2002 9:03 pm

Come off it, Richie. You don't respect me(everyone knows that), and you don't respect the community. You evidently don't respect yourself or you wouldn't repeatedly stoop so low. I don't even care if you respect me; it's not about that. I recognize that there are two authors, but I also know that there's two wheels on a motorcycle and it only takes one crooked wheel to wreck the cycle. Don't try to play it off on Joe. I doubt he appreciates that, but he can speak for himself.

"Mike started it." That line is getting pretty old, ya know. Mike is not the source of all your problems, as you are not the source of all his problems. What you can do is mellow out and quit whining, even if someone complains. Guess what, it's life, and when you put something out there for the public to examine, you're gonna have problems, whether from Mike or not. Don't expect the world to ooh and ahhh just because you slap something together, which no one asked you to create. You decided to take up the project, so now you can deal with it...as an adult, please?

Darknight

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Knight Rider Legacy Discussion Thread

Post by knightimmortal » Mon Oct 07, 2002 9:09 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KRAvenger:
<STRONG>It did? Gee, how many copies do You have to sell to get that prestigous honor?</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know, go over to Barnes and Noble, see their bestseller sales rank in a day or a week, and estimate from there.

KI

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Knight Rider Legacy Discussion Thread

Post by knightvision » Mon Oct 07, 2002 9:15 pm

Once again Darknight I do not have the time to squabble with you.

I do respect you and your opinion, I do not however have the time you have. I am busy working on both the BG and the KR book and I really dont have the time to keep posting about this.

So be an adult Corby and know that I value your opinion and let it end. If anyone has any book concerns then address them. Otherwise no more hostiltiy.

Richie Levine

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Knight Rider Legacy Discussion Thread

Post by knightvision » Mon Oct 07, 2002 9:19 pm

The book finished its first week in the top 100 at 69 for Barnes and Nobles and even at this moment has hundreds of copies waiting to be filled.

Richie Levine

[ October 07, 2002: Message edited by: knightvision ]

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