A nitpick i can counter

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Post by Skav » Sat Sep 07, 2002 9:55 am

Ok, just been over to KI's site and saw this nitty by Sadarticle from the episode, No Big Thing, but I think i can offer an explanation (Sorry, sadarticle :S):

"A truck is sent to stop Michael and Kitt, by driving headlong into them on their side of the road. Michael is a little slow to realise that the driver means business, so Kitt helps him out: "Michael! Hit the brakes!" and then "Michael! Put it in reverse!" But then almost as soon as Michael has the car travelling backwards, Kitt demands, "Michael, why reverse?"


Ok.....as kitt was approaching the truck, he must have just panicked at the thought of the truck approaching and there was no room to turbo boost at the time. Kitt panicked and was astonished at the thought of Goliath approaching him so why not this particular truck? Kitt always had phobias about large things since kitt is a relatively small car so the only thing he can think of at the time, logically, was to tell michael to reverse it.

Kitt was simply saying to michael, in figure of speech, that he should have seen the truck and jumped over when he had the chance and room to!

So, basically, kitt was having a go at Michael in a sense.

So, I don't think it's a nitpick but you all may have your own views.

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Post by Knight2000 » Sat Sep 07, 2002 11:30 am

Which KR website has a list of all the nitpicks? I got a few for the Pilot and Goliath but am unsure if they've already been spotted (probably have). Thanx in advance.

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Post by knightimmortal » Sat Sep 07, 2002 2:47 pm

http://knightridercollective.8m.com/nitpicks.htm

And Skav, KITT never really had a phobia of huge trucks until Goliath ran him down, and flipped him over. No Big Thing was in Season 1, before that event.

It is still a nitpick, because the second questioning of reverse, is out of character, and if KITT is so prone to panicing, that early on, then he needed to be decommissioned.

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Post by SadArticle » Sat Sep 07, 2002 3:15 pm

I thought of a possible KRE myself - Kitt was suggesting reverse to provide enough space to Turbo boost (which he suggests after 'Michael, why reverse?') He could simply have been questioning why Michael carried on reversing, instead of stopping and taking a run up in order to jump over the truck.

I had that in mind, but still liked how "Michael, put it in reverse!", followed by "Michael, why reverse?", sounded [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] And how Michael blindly complied [img]images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img]

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Post by Scott Kirkessner » Sat Sep 07, 2002 4:08 pm

I am with KI. KITT is a computer, not a human, therefore, he really wouldn't and shouldn't be panicking.

-Scott

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by knightimmortal:
<STRONG>http://knightridercollective.8m.com/nitpicks.htm

And Skav, KITT never really had a phobia of huge trucks until Goliath ran him down, and flipped him over. No Big Thing was in Season 1, before that event.

It is still a nitpick, because the second questioning of reverse, is out of character, and if KITT is so prone to panicing, that early on, then he needed to be decommissioned.

knightimmortal</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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Post by SadArticle » Sun Sep 08, 2002 1:03 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael Pajaro:
<STRONG>


KITT hadn't met up with Goliath yet.

Mike</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's not how I read Skav's comment. He wasn't saying, I believe, that Kitt was already scared of trucks because of Goliath, but that he was always ready to back down and 'protect his backside', to paraphrase Michael in 'Scent of Roses'. Goliath, in season two, just compounded his fear of being out of his depth!

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Post by Skav » Sun Sep 08, 2002 1:10 pm

Exactly! That's what I was saying.

Tut

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Post by knightimmortal » Sun Sep 08, 2002 11:28 pm

And he was anxious, but he didn't panic. I think the hangup comes with the word 'panic'. It's not a good one to associate with KITT anytime, anywhere.

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Post by SadArticle » Mon Sep 09, 2002 12:48 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Scott Kirkessner:
<STRONG>I am with KI. KITT is a computer, not a human, therefore, he really wouldn't and shouldn't be panicking.

-Scott

</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Weeeeelllll ... Maybe for season one. But he was always cautious, for Michael's sake (and because of his dominant program), and probably his own. Remember 'Junkyard Dog'? He didn't exactly panic, but he backed out of the Turbo boost on the test track, and needed some counselling from Michael to return to the 'scene of the crime'. All I'm saying is, Kitt was a computer who evolved, and learned from experience, and while he may not have exactly freaked out about things, he did worry about the potential outcome a lot! [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]

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Post by Skav » Mon Sep 09, 2002 12:50 am

Well, it all comes down to thoughts and feelings again.

Kitt had feelings as early as season one...take 'trust doesnt rust' for example...

KITT:"Michael, I have a strange feeling about this!" hence, panic.

Michael:"What are you talking about, you don't have feelings."

KITT:"I know, that's what's strange about it".

And in Deadly Maneuvers when michael asked kitt if he could take a direct hit. Kitt said he'd prefer not to find out.

So, he was always that little anxious about certain things and i think the truck in 'no big thing' was a perfect excuse.

The truck in Goliath just heightened his fear!

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Post by Michael Pajaro » Mon Sep 09, 2002 12:55 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Skav:
<STRONG>
The truck in Goliath just heightened his fear!
</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


KITT hadn't met up with Goliath yet.

Mike

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Post by Skav » Mon Sep 09, 2002 9:34 am

So, kitt saying to Michael: "Michael, hit the brakes!"

KITT:"Michael, quick, put it in reverse!!"

That's not panic? You can sense it in his tone of voice at that precise moment.

There are others I can think of...what about in 'blind spot' when kitt was put in the car compressor and he envisioned him being turned into a tin can? Again, his tone of voice suggests panic.

He DOES panic.

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Post by SadArticle » Mon Sep 09, 2002 10:31 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by knightimmortal:
<STRONG>And he was anxious, but he didn't panic. I think the hangup comes with the word 'panic'. It's not a good one to associate with KITT anytime, anywhere.

knightimmortal</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ain't semantics a pain? [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] It's all in the precise definition of the word 'panic', so I think KI is right. The Oxford dictionary (deep groan She's at it again) states that panic is 'sudden uncontrollable fear or anxiety, often causing wildly unthinking behaviour'. I don't think Kitt ever went that far, although the compactor in 'Blind Spot' is an interesting example (his whole mood and behaviour was affected by his knowledge of the car yard in the original script). Kitt had to factor Michael's safety (and then his own) into situations, and I think this produced a sort of fear of being unable to actively prevent, or remedy, danger. In other words, he hated having control taken away from him - the compactor, hydraulic jacks, etc. Michael was basically a tool at Kitt's disposal - if he could get Michael to come around in the compactor, or move the car out of harm's way before the truck, a bit of yelling was probably necessary [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]

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Post by knightimmortal » Mon Sep 09, 2002 2:34 pm

KITT did NOT panic. (And thank you for the definition, SadArticle)

KITT still had control of the situation, every single time that he was in over his head. (And on occasion, the writers slipped back to having to establish the need for Michael and his grand abilities to push buttons.) He used an elevated tone of voice, because it got Michael's attention, but if he paniced, well, Michael would be dead, KITT would be a square box somewhere, and it even goes against his primary programming, to protect his driver. If he paniced, then he wouldn't be able to handle the situation.

The only one where KITT showed some form of panic was after he had been rebuilt in Junk Yard Dog, when he was afraid to face his fears. And remember what was said about him if he couldn't handle the situation, and would panic? He would be regulated to a lesser duty.

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[ September 09, 2002: Message edited by: knightimmortal ]

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Post by SadArticle » Mon Sep 09, 2002 2:47 pm

It was the 'wildly unthinking behaviour' part of the definition that was the decider for me. Kitt was always thinking, and logically at that, even when it looked like things were going wrong.

But KI brought up a point, with the reference to 'A Plush Ride' - why did he need Michael to wake up and get them out of the 'barrelling down the cliff' predicament? And didn't he need Michael in 'Blind Spot' too? Examples of fuzzy thinking? Surely not! [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] Come on, KI et al - save Kitt's reputation

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Post by knightimmortal » Mon Sep 09, 2002 2:53 pm

Early design flaws where KITT had too much reliance upon the driver. The whole 'one man can make a difference' thing was also his hinderance when he tried to help Michael in the pilot, and Michael refused. They made no bones about it, the vehicles (KITT and KARR) had a very deep reliance upon their human drivers to do the higher functions. It was a huge design flaw.

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Post by SadArticle » Mon Sep 09, 2002 3:03 pm

In 'Slammin' Sammy's Stunt Show Spectacular' ("Don't ask me to say that again" [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] ), Kitt used his own intiative, and Turbo-boosted over the obstacle when Michael was drugged and unresponsive. Michael's life was at risk in both cases (the stunt, and the cliff in 'A Plush Ride').

Bear with me - I know it's only a TV programme, and that script writers are infallible and probably don't rate continuity over thinking up the storylines in the first place - but I think this is an interesting, if completely pointless, debate. 'Slammin' Sammy's..' came before 'A Plush Ride', and yet Kitt 'unlearned' his ability to save his driver's ass of his own volition from one episode to the next. Was he just wanting to test out the "I may survive the impact, you however will not" theory? [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]

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Post by knightimmortal » Mon Sep 09, 2002 3:11 pm

A lot of it was due to lack of writer continuity. There were episodes that showcased KITT's ability to do things on his own. There were a lot more episodes where Michael had to push buttons.

Maybe the difference between Slammin' Sammy's and Plush Ride was the fact that Michael passed out in KITT, and KITT knew that reviving him would be extremely difficult since he went into that state while in the vehicle. In Plush Ride and Blind Spot, Michael was put in, unconscious, and somehow KITT was able to equate that (and successfully, I might add) to being able to wake him, and allow him to continue doing his human role with the vehicle. Both of the previously mentioned incidents had time for decisions to be made, in Slammin' Sammy's, there was no time.

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Post by Skav » Mon Sep 09, 2002 3:54 pm

Hang on, whoa, hey...stop there... [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]....KITT didn't automatically jump through the ring of fire to save Michael. Remember, he still asked him to press the 'auto' button before he jumped so that he could save him.

I don't know why, but it's always bugged me as to why KITT just didn't switch mode himself. I know that it was probably the fact that he was programmed to ask for Michael's permission to switch modes and accomplish other tasks but it's also going against his dominant program if Michael were not to push that 'auto cruise' button and he were to die!

It woulda been kitt's fault.

And, btw, that oxford dictionary definition of the word 'panic' has some meaning to 'blind spot'.

The term, explaining 'uncontrollable fear caused by wild thinking' applies to the compressor scene again. Isn't kitt, envisioning him being a tin can and basically doin nothing...just sitting there in it, panic? He was just leaving it all up to Michael to figure out what to do.

And yet, earlier on in the series...season 1's episode, 'good day at white rock', they argued about when Michael out thought kitt!

KITT hated this but if you look at some various episodes such as 'big iron','blind spot', goliath eps etc...any episode in which kitt and michael were in danger together, michael was always the one that had to think up a plan.

KITT's supposed to be an intelligent CPU...ahead of it's time yet he was always useless for thoughts and ideas.

As I said earlier, maybe it was because he allowed michael to think about HIS ideas cos he was programmed to, but that would, in effect, render kitt useless in emergency situations.

Hell, there were even some episodes where michael was in a dangerous situation and kitt was right in front of whatever was happening...but yet stood there until michael called him!


Skav [img]images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]

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Post by knightimmortal » Mon Sep 09, 2002 4:00 pm

Biiiiiiig design flaw. [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] Of course without it, there would have been no need for a driver other than to be just window dressing. *chuckles*

KITT: Hi, I'm KITT, and this is my blowup doll, Michael.

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[ September 09, 2002: Message edited by: knightimmortal ]

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Post by K.I.T.T » Mon Sep 09, 2002 4:09 pm

Remember when Devon showed KITT to Michael for the first time!!
He went straight through the wall...Michael yelling "thought you said that this machine couldn't have a collision"
Devon "Not if the system is opt able and to do that you need to switch it on first"

From doing that KITT would act in the best interest of Michael without asking him. (e.g Playing chicken with a semi

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Post by Skav » Mon Sep 09, 2002 6:13 pm

Well, it was on. I don't really understand whether it's a nitpick or not cos i don't know if devon meant turning the system on as a whole?? If so, then why not just press the power button on or off? That's what Michael's done to deactivate his systems later on in the series.

Mind you, that is then...might have been different at that early point in the series, although, I'm sure some of them buttons that devon pressed were for oil slick and smoke screen??

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Post by knightimmortal » Mon Sep 09, 2002 6:51 pm

That was the keypad of many uses. When Devon turned it on, there was a code seemingly to turn the system on. There was a code for the smoke, a code for the oil, and then there were various buttons that Michael could just play with.

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Post by Skav » Mon Sep 09, 2002 7:10 pm

Buddy, from the pilot, figured out that code pretty easily then didn't he.... [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]

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Post by knightimmortal » Mon Sep 09, 2002 7:21 pm

For the most part, the 'code' was one button that did the job, and two others that Michael could play with. [img]images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img]

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